🔊 - The Not-So-Secret Secret Influence of ‘Dune’ on ‘Star Wars’ w/ Dark Side Divas Podcast (S1/E11)
Lucas vs Herbert, the upcoming 'Rein of the Empire' book series, & thoughts on 'Skeleton Crew'!
This transmission may be too long for your inbox. Hyperspace jump to the web version!
Tim and Jim chat about the upcoming Reign of the Empire book series and Skeleton Crew streaming series before Tim's deep-dive convo with Chris and Stefannie of the Dark Side Divas podcast about the not-so-subtle influence of Dune on George Lucas and the Star Wars franchise.
Episode Credits:
Hosts: Tim Barnes, and Jim Fagan
Guests: Stefannie + Chris Lauzon of the Dark Side Divas podcast
Theme Song: Matt Maher
Announcer: Carolina Ravassa
Podcast Art: Joel Jackson
And don’t forget to follow us @ Yub Nub Pod 👉🏼
Email questions and thoughts to: yubnubpod [at] gmail [dot] com
And if you missed our recap of the premiere — don’t (boba) fret, you can listen right here.
IN THIS NEWSLETTER:
Shared Archetypes, Dueling Fandoms, and Career Comparisons
Reign of the Empire & Skeleton Crew
Dark Side Divas: A Star Wars Story
Dark Side Divas is a podcast about the Star Wars saga, from a nerdy Texas woman and a California gay man who loves lightsabers, droids, and shade. They cover the story of Star Wars with a deep dive in movies and TV shows in chronological order.
We first met the Dark Side Divas while guesting on their show to discuss the early episodes of The Acolyte and have since learned how much their diva-verse connects to other sci-fi franchises like Star Trek in their Holodeck Divas and Marvelous Divas podcasts!
So, give their shows a follow and if you missed our last Yub Nub/Dark Side Divas mash-up, listen to it here with our convo about episode 7 of The Acolyte!
Discussion Highlights:
Archetypes and plot devices shared by Dune and Star Wars…
A few of the common comparisons between Frank Herbert’s Dune (published in 1965) and George Lucas’ Star Wars (released in 1977) include the sand planet…
…in the Star Wars galaxy, every planet is a single biome… If it's a desert planet, it's a desert planet. If it's a forest planet, it's a forest planet. And in Dune, the reason for that is terraforming. They show up and they install one template on the planet.
- Stefannie of Dark Side Divas (Yub Nub, 2024)
The sand planet worms…
The magical religious figures…
And the addictive “spice”…
But beyond that, it seems that Lucas and Herbert have a shared love of serialized storytelling.
For Lucas, it stems from the visual world of movies and comics as described in our Flash Gordon and Art That Inspired Star Wars episodes.
![PODCAST - [Special Edition Re-release] Connecting the dots between ‘Flash Gordon’ serials and ‘Star Wars’ (S1/E4)](https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_140,h_140,c_fill,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep,g_auto/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8b5c2666-70fb-4445-8cd1-9e0f66ac65b1_1920x1920.png)
While for Herbert, it seemed to be more text based. In fact, his Dune series began as serialized installments in the sci-fi magazine, Analog.
At the time, his story was called Dune World and you can find all of the magazine installments at the below links (thanks to reddit user atonaldenim who shared “a gem of a 90s-era handmade website called the Luminist League”):
"Dune World" — later "Book 1: Dune"
DEC. 1963
JAN. 1964
FEB. 1964"The Prophet of Dune" — later "Book II: Muad'Dib" and "Book III: The Prophet"
JAN. 1965
FEB. 1965
MARCH 1965
APRIL 1965
MAY 1965
Herbert and Lucas also share a passion for mythology…
I've seen an interview where Frank Herbert cited Arthurian myth and legend as reasons why he structured the government the way they were. George Lucas is also equally inspired by that. We love the same things. We all get inspired by almost the same things and create different types of art. That's what's wonderful and beautiful. I don't mind that there's so much crossover between Dune and Star Wars. In fact, I think that's great. I think that's evidence that how interconnected we are as human beings. And I, my opinion is we should be celebrating it versus like tearing each other down.
- Chris Lauzon (Yub Nub, 2024)
The writing/filmmaking careers of Frank Herbert/George Lucas…
Both Herbert (who died in 1986) and Lucas created franchises that thrive outside of their direct control. Herbert’s son, Brian Herbert continues to expand upon his father’s mythology with various Dune books — and Star Wars has a sprawling life in television, film, comics, and novels under the guidance of people like Kathleen Kennedy and Dave Filoni.
Unlike Lucas, Herbert continued to write standalone books outside of the Dune series. But although Lucas didn’t do much official directing between 1977’s Star Wars and 1999’s Star Wars: The Phantom Menace — he spearheaded many projects functioning more as a producer and creative executive.
The Dune and Star Wars fandoms…
Both Dune and Star Wars have complex fandoms. There is bitterness between them, sure.
I feel like there's a snobbery in Dune land, in the Dune-verse, that goes back to Frank Herbert calling out George Lucas for ripping off his stuff, where Dune doesn't want to echo Star Wars. They don't want to do it like Star Wars. Because Star Wars is the bargain basement knockoff. It's the great value brand of Dune, right? So they don't want to do that.
- Stefannie of Dark Side Divas (Yub Nub, 2024)
But they both went through interesting periods of drought. Ironically, it was novels that sustained the Star Wars fandom post-Return of the Jedi. And, as Chris describes about Dune fans…
Dune fandom, uh, it was starving for such a long time. You know, the only thing we got were the Brian Herbert books and there was a reason why a lot of those books made it to the New York times bestseller list is because, okay, finally something I'll take anything. I'll take comic books. I'll take a coffee mug with a worm on it. You know, anything.
- Chris Lauzon (Yub Nub, 2024)
And agree or disagree… both sets of fans have been open about their gripes regarding certain characters. For Star Wars it’s been about portrayals of species like Gungans, Toydarians, Neimoidians.
While for Dune it’s been about similar attempts of futuristic cultural appropriation in addition to Herbert’s portrayal of gay characters.
About 30 minute into this Frank Herbert speech at UCLA — you can hear him being confronted about his portrayal of gay characters in the book.
However you feel about the criticisms, it’s a healthy sign of both fandoms that there are factions willing to bring voice to such grievances and maintain some level of involvement with the aspects of the material that they love.
As minorities and people from marginalized communities, you always have to look at the art that you love and kind of try and delete some things from it because what else are you going to do?
- Tim Barnes (Yub Nub, 2024)
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Photos from the upcoming Skeleton Crew series
Jim is excited about these official first-look Skeleton Crew photos!
The upcoming Reign of the Empire trilogy of books
Tim is excited about an upcoming trilogy of books under the banner Reign of the Empire — exploring the politics behind the rise of the rebellion. It kicks off with Reign of the Empire: The Mask Of Fear – which has this great cover with a light shining on Mon Mothma in her senate pod.
Here’s the official logline for The Mask of Fear:
Before the Rebellion, the Empire reigned.
“In order to ensure the security and continuing stability, the Republic will be reorganized into the
first Galactic Empire! For a safe and secure society!”With one speech, and thunderous applause, Chancellor Palpatine brought the era of the Republic crashing down. In its place rose the Galactic Empire. Across the galaxy, people rejoiced and celebrated the end to war—and the promises of tomorrow. But that tomorrow was a lie. Instead the galaxy became twisted by the cruelty and fear of the Emperor’s rule.
During that terrifying first year of tyranny, Mon Mothma, Saw Gerrera, and Bail Organa face the encroaching darkness. One day, they will be three architects of the Rebel Alliance. But first, each must find purpose and direction in a changing galaxy, while harboring their own secrets, fears, and hopes for a future that may never come, unless they act.
Get more details on The Mask of Fear and the entire Reign of the Empire trilogy here.
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